Dan Rather in Conversation with Bud Mishkin: New York Then, New York Now
Conducted under the aegis of the 92Y.
Dan Irvin Rather Jr.’s famed career has spanned six decades. He’s interviewed every president since Eisenhower and personally covered almost every important dateline of the last 60 years. After coverage of Hurricane Carla, one of the worst tropical cyclone landfalls to date, and his reporting on the assassination of President Kennedy, Rather was promoted to CBS News where he served as White House correspondent. He spent the following two years reporting from London and Vietnam, then returned to the White House covering President Nixon, including Nixon’s trip to China, the Watergate scandal, and the president’s resignation.
The venerated journalist rose to managing editor of the CBS Evening News, then went on to be synonymous with the intrepid 60 Minutes and launched 48 Hours as a news magazine program. Upon leaving CBS, he created the Emmy Award winning Dan Rather Reports on HDNet. Currently, Rather is president and CEO of News and Guts, an independent production company he founded that specializes in high-quality non-fiction content across a range of traditional and digital distribution channels.
Budd Mishkin has been a broadcast journalist for almost forty years. Having spent 25 of these on NY1, he’s now an anchor/correspondent for CBS News Radio Network. Mishkin has interviewed countless influential artists and luminaries, many for the 92Y. His conversations are invariably informed and entertaining.
Mishkin: “So many people in the news these days make their living by sitting in a studio and talking, Throughout Dan Rather’s career, he went. As a born and bred, died-in-the-wool Texan, what were your first impressions of New York and when did you come to live here?”
In his early 20s, Rather hitchhiked all the way to New York – excepting a bus ride during a downpour – and hitchhiked back. It was the first time he’d been out of state with the exception of a brief stint in The Marines.
Rather: “New York exceeded my wildest expectations. I was on a tight budget…and can’t tell you how many people were nice and showed me things.” The newsman later came back on assignment for weeks or months at a time and finally moved up from Washington in 1979 when 60 Minutes came into his life.
Mishkin: “Can you still look at it with a bit of an outsider’s view? What are your current observations?”
Rather: “I’m a sixth generation Texan, but I do feel every inch a New Yorker. I’ve always been at home here. It’s been over 40 years. One of the difficulties of people who think that way may be that they see it as one big metropolis, when you and I know it’s just a federation of neighborhoods.
“I was in New York when the pandemic hit.” (Rather joins us this evening from Texas.) Jean (his wife) was still there after a visit. “During the worst of it, I was really proud of New York and New Yorkers. The way the city responded was somewhat reminiscent of 9/11. I was touched by the small things like banging pots at 7 p.m. in support of healthcare workers.” (He participated.) “When the chips are down, New York knows how to pull together.”
Mishkin asks his guest about “breaking down” during a Dave Letterman Show appearance at 9/11.
Rather: “It was a time of constant grief. The Kennedy assassination hit hard for a compact period of time. With 9/11, it was day after day of mourning. What happened on the program, I hadn’t been outside the broadcast center for days except to go home and sleep. Grief rushed up. I tried to keep it down and couldn’t.”
Mishkin: “Your book is getting a second round of attention now because of what’s happened. That norm is, shall we say, not in vogue now. Have you thought about what’s changed?”
Mishkin is referring to Rather’s 2017 book What Unites Us: Reflections on Patriotism (written with Elliot Kirschner). “Our founding documents contain some of the most beautiful and noble words ever put on paper,” Rather said upon publication.
Rather: “I recite them often and love them with every fiber of my being. We the people, all of us, are living together in perhaps the greatest social and governmental experiment ever conceived. We are being tested. How can we prepare ourselves for the moment? Are we up to the challenge?
“I tried to write a book that would stand the test of time. People were already saying Trump was dividing us further. There was division during The Civil War and in the 1960s, but this is unique. We never had a president who deliberately divided the country for his own purposes. There are ongoing principles. I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in one man one vote. We should be striving for equal justice under law. Empathy is an attribute we can all aspire to.”
Mishkin: “I read that your father told you to hold yourself steady and do what you can. Do you hear his voice in your head?”
Apparently Rather suffered rheumatic fever and spent ages 11-13 in bed. It was then his father, a ditch digger and pipe layer, gave him the advice the journalist says remains part of his bedrock.
Rather: “Things are going to get worse not better. I think we need to keep steady, but also, importantly to listen to one another. I know a lot of people who can’t stand to talk to ‘the other side.’ We need to find common ground. It’s imperative now.”
Mishkin: “It’s been pointed out that you have 1.6 million followers on Twitter. I’m reminded of a 2004 New York Times article in which you quoted the great Bob Dylan: He not busy being born is busy dying.” (From “It’s Alright, Ma (I’m Only Bleeding.”) “Were you resistant to social media?”
Rather started in print, then, admittedly a terrible speller, moved on to broadcast. At first he thought himself “born too soon” for social media, then was persuaded to try it and “jumped in full throttle.
Rather: “I’m not an especially smart person, but it’s worked for me. I may not learn fast, but I learn good. It’s been one of the professional miracles of my life. I’m on the back side of the mountain now and never expected this kind of readership.”
Mishkin: “You may be on the other side of the mountain, but what a journey!”
Rather: “Well, Moses never made it to the promised land, but he stood on a mountain and saw it and was glad to have made the journey.”
Rather has said he goes to interviews with “clear eyes, an inquiring mind, and an open heart.” Mishkin asks his view on journalism today.
Rather: “There’s no question that ethical standards have diminished, partly, I think, due to the competitive arena. New York has been the beating heart of world news since the middle of the 20th century. The pandemic and economic downturn have changed things. Advertising supported journalism like investigative reporting. The internet destroyed that model. With few exceptions, no one has found one to replace it.
“In terms of standards, who is a journalist now? Is it just someone who sits in a basement saying what he thinks? Going forward we need to educate generations to be more knowledgeable consumers of news, to be able to distinguish between news and entertainment.”
Mishkin: “Being on the road and going where the story was is part of who you are. Was there a time when you made a difficult call?”
Rather: “I walked the hall in 61, 62 with legends. It was very much in the ethos of the place to aspire to be world class and to do that you had to go to wars and natural disasters. The first years I was at CBS News, I was home 31 days, the second 43 days. At the time, I can’t say I stopped and thought about it. We all prayed for the big story.” Rather credits Jean, his wife of 62 years, with keeping the marriage together. “The toughest call was going into Afghanistan with 60 Minutes. My family took me aside and said don’t do it. I went ahead and only with God’s grace did I manage to walk out.”
Rather is asked to compare the Nixon and Trump White Houses.
Rather: “The Trump presidency happened in an almost completely different country. Both presidents sought to gain political advantage by exacerbating racial difference, both had a deep and abiding hatred of the press. Nixon, however, rarely criticized press as a whole, he took on individuals. Also, for all the negatives about him, he believed in governmental checks and balances. Trump has tried to diminish every aspect of our government. He has no respect for the institutions that provide checks and balance.”
Mishkin: “Only a few of us know what it’s like to feel venom from a President of the United States. Do you build up a thick skin over time or face it in the moment?”
Rather: “Both. This is a time to stand up, look him in the eye and do what you have to do…When you take on power, you’re going to have to pay the price. An editor once said to me, ‘If you’re in journalism and you want a friend, get a dog.’”
Mishkin: “What are your comments about the run-off in Georgia and about where the nation is heading during transition?”
Rather: “Remember in politics, a week is forever. Despite favoring of Republicans, it’s not a situation where we know for sure. As to transition, first, a great deal depends on the next 60-85 days with the virus. If a great many people travel for the holidays, it will be more difficult. A lot depends on discipline. And then, the question is whether Congress will step up and put a second relief package into effect. I’m deeply worried about the economy.”
Several times this evening Mishkin, who has known Rather for years, refers to the newsman’s natural optimism.
Rather: “It’s harder today. I remember when Pearl Harbor was bombed. We plunged into war. It wasn’t clear at that point we’d win. I have to go back to then for a time I was this worried.”
Mishkin: “When you were just starting out in Texas, was the thought, this is great, it’s what I want to do or was the notion, the world is growing and I want to be a part of it?”
Rather: “I always thought of going to far away places with strange sounding names.” (From the song “Far Away Places” by Joan Whitney/Alex Kramer.) “But for the longest time assumed I’d work my way up at a local television station.”
It’s inspiring to find Rather still in the thick of it, integrity and intelligence intact. Like Edward R. Murrow and Harry Reasoner, his face, voice (if a bit raspy), and words continue to illuminate and despite qualms, to reassure.
Opening Photo: Dan Rather left, Bud Mishkin right Courtesy of the 92Y
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