Woman Around Town’s Editor Charlene Giannetti and writers for the website talk with the women and men making news in New York, Washington, D.C., and other cities around the world. Thanks to Ian Herman for his wonderful piano introduction.
When Shannon Dorsey began doing research for her roles in the Tony Award-winning play All the Way, her best sources came from family members who remembered what it was like to live in Washington, D.C. in the 1960s. Back then, D.C. was essentially a southern city where both racism and segregation existed. Against this backdrop, President Lyndon Johnson was focused on passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964. While LBJ was front and center, there were many players on that political stage. And there will be many actors playing those roles in Arena Stage’s much anticipated production directed by Kyle Donnelly which runs through May 8. Shannon learned about the two women she plays, Coretta Scott King, wife of Dr.Martin Luther King, Jr., and Fannie Lou Hamer, a voting and civil rights activist, and found their stories both inspiring and tragic.
We asked Shannon, along with two other actors – Adrienne Nelson, who will play Muriel Humphrey and Lurleen Wallace, and Susan Rome, who will play Lady Bird Johnson – to reflect on their characters and the timeliness of staging Robert Schenkkan’s All the Way now in our nation’s capital.
You are likely not old enough to remember the Civil Rights battle in the 1960s. What research did you do that helped take you back to that historic time?
My first resource is my family. Both sides are native to D.C., with one side going back at least five generations. The other side migrated from North Carolina three or four generations ago. Both sides, being in D.C. for long, will remind you that D.C. was still the South, especially back then. The liberal attitude we see today did not exist for them. What did exist was overt racism, blatant segregation and an overwhelmingly distinct sense of danger when encountering a white person. Some of them were teenagers and young adults during this time and their firsthand accounts gave me a lot of insight to what the climate was like for black people, especially black women. From there, I began to lightly peruse the autobiographies of both women. Then, I began to get more specific – looking for nuances to further feed and shape my own insight.
What have you learned that surprised you the most?
That Coretta was a bona fide tomboy! The story about how she accidentally cut her cousin in the head with an axe is surprising; no one would have ever put Coretta and tomboy in the same sentence. This seemingly surprising information brings a beautiful, unexpected complexity to this larger-than-life icon. I found a picture of her – smiling with a hint of mischief and tawny from playing out in the sun – that further shaped who she could have been as a child. It is one of my favorite pictures of her.
And that in 1961 Fannie Lou Hamer was given a “Mississippi Appendectomy” which is the moniker for unsolicited hysterectomies given to poor black Southern women. Even though it was a common thing in the pre-civil rights South – for some reason I had some surprise that she was victim of this only a few years prior to her famous speech.
What have you learned about your character that helped to inform your performance?
That Fannie and Coretta were warrior women. They fought so that people that look like me can have a better quality of live. They shared the similar qualities – they both sang, they both were mothers (even though Fannie didn’t bear children of her own she did adopt), they both fought for civil rights unabashedly. Coretta was definitely a fashion icon, but like Fannie, she was in poverty even after Martin’s death. They were more than just wives, they were legit fighters in this movement and we would not have been successful without them!
What comments or opinions did you hear from relatives and friends when you told them about this play and the woman you would play?
Usually, there is excitement when I mention Coretta, because she is such a popular household name, and then curiosity if it is Fannie Lou Hamer, because a lot of people have NO idea who she is.
Bowman Wright as Martin Luther King, Jr. and Shannon Dorsey as Coretta Scott King. Photo by Stan Barouh
How does LBJ’s portrayal in this play compare to the one we saw in the film, Selma? Do you feel seeing the Civil Rights battle from different points of view helps or hinders how succeeding generations interpret history?
LBJ’s portrayal in both the stage play and the film can provide perspective, and hopefully encourage curiosity to dig more for what could be the truth.
In general, I feel the media can help and hinder – honestly, I feel it is more hurtful that not. Fear mongering has been around for ages, but never have we had such accelerated, instantaneous access to it. Access to information, whether it is correct or otherwise, will not change in this time BUT I hope more people ASK QUESTIONS.
We are in the midst of a presidential campaign. What characteristics attributed to LBJ might the current crop of candidates seek to emulate? What should they avoid?
The LBJ in our play is one that decides to do the right thing no matter what. Takes time for him to get there, but the moral energy lies underneath it all. Not idealistic, moral.
They should avoid attitudes of entitlement/privilege, profiting from another subjugation. LBJ says “This is about those who got more, wantin’ to hang on to what they got, at the expense of those who got nothin’. And feel good about it!”
Why is it important that this play be staged in DC now? LBJ says it best in the play, “
Witnessing the beginnings of the fight for Civil Rights, might audience goers be energized to continue that fight? Or disappointed that more has not been accomplished? Both! This play will ignite audiences to instill true reform and will also show how far behind we are.
What has the opportunity to be in this play meant to you? Will you come away changed in any way?
As a D.C. native, I just can’t express how important it is for me to be a part of this play. First, I get to perform at the local theater I have ALWAYS wanted to perform at more than anywhere else in the area, so I am ecstatic and hugging everybody I see. But to play such iconic figures in the same town where legislation happened to give my parents general rights so that I can be born with these rights, is more than a blessing.
Change is the only thing that is constant in the world, so I will definitely, or have definitely, shifted in ways that I do and do not see. But it is awesome. Learning about these women has given me even more to go forward with.
Lurleen Wallace and Muriel Humphrey – two women who were caught up in the political whirlwind that defined a decade. During the battle to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Muriel Humphrey was married to Vice President Hubert Humphrey, a supporter of the legislation, while Lurleen Wallace was married to Alabama Governor George Wallace who opposed integration. In Arena Stage’s production of the Tony Award-winning play, All the Way, Adrienne Nelson will appear as these two very different women. For Nelson, appearing in Robert Schenkkan’s play has taken her on an historic journey. Muriel was born in the Midwest, and Lurleen, in the south, both would go on to succeed their husbands in office. Muriel would be appointed to her husband’s seat in the Senate after he died, while Lurleen was elected Alabama’s governor after her husband was ineligible to run for reelection.
We asked Adrienne how she prepared for her roles and what she learned about these two women who were married to powerful men at opposite ends of the political spectrum. In a previous story, Susan Rome talked about playing Lady Bird Johnson, and Shannon Dorsey, who will play Coretta Scott King, will be featured in a future story.
None of you actually lived through the Civil Rights battle in the 1960s. What research did you do that helped take you back to that historic time?
As I delved deeper into this explosive chapter in our country’s history, I began with the Humphreys to revisit this time period first through the prism of their experiences and journeys. Hubert Humphrey’s biography The Education of a Public Man My Life and Politics has proven to be very enlightening as well as footage from Hubert H. Humphrey The Art of the Possible. I watched the PBS documentary on George Wallace as well as the John Frankenheimer film based on Marshall Frady’s ’96 biography Wallace: The Classic Portrait of Alabama Governor George Wallace. Side note: my husband actually worked on the film in L.A. under co-producer and family friend, former head of casting for CBS Ethel Winant. He did all sorts of things for the production large and small though always remembers having to read the big MLK speech during an early table read with just the principals at the Ambassador Hotel. My husband, Ian Armstrong, is not African American and of course has such incredible respect for Dr. King so was a bit wary of reading it to say the least.Though when they shared they really needed to just hear it for the rhythm/pacing and thanks to Mr. Sinise’s encouragement (Gary Sinese starred in the film as Wallace), he gave it his best shot. Side note #2, I have read that George Wallace did NOT approve of many parts of this film.
Although I’ve found articles, letters, recordings, videos, documentaries, and photographs to be extremely useful, I also have enjoyed rewatching Selma, Mississippi Burning and The Long Walk Home to remember and revisit different interpretations of this chapter. Just like Schenkkan’s All the Way, they are not documentaries. I find it can still be extremely productive for an actor to imagine the private moments and conversations that were not captured – and these films smartly fill in/offer up many possibilities of what dialogue might have been shared behind closed doors before different pivotal moments in history. I can’t wait for Mr. Schennkan to write an epic play about President Obama’s time at the White House. Can we make this happen?
As our inspiring and visionary director Kyle Donnelly has encouraged/reminded us, it is often most useful and revealing to see what happens before and after an iconic photograph is taken and speech is made and legacy is set. Some of my most treasured pieces of research have been seeing glimpses of Muriel Humphrey (and Lurleen Wallace, the MFDP – Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party – members, and LBJ’s secretaries) before during and after an iconic and historic shot was taken and also on film thanks to (for Muriel) Ladybird’s home videos! There’s some great raw footage of the Humphreys at the ranch in ’55 that foreshadow and reveal more than 100 articles could.
The Humphreys – Adrienne Nelson and Richard Clodfelter
There are also wonderful recordings of Muriel talking to LBJ on the phone and a video of Muriel’s first day as a Senator (albeit from a time later in her life) that provide some character gold and connective tissue.
I’m also so very grateful to the beautiful and generous guidance and expertise of Arena’s Literary Manager Linda Lombardi for leading us to the most reputable and revealing resources to better understand the complexities, nuances, personalities involved in the MFDP, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, Freedom Summer, Congress of Racial Equality, NAACP, and other groups and turning points during this movement, especially the timelines and interconnections and challenges/divisions between some of the groups.
What did you learn that surprised you the most?
I was actually most surprised by the game/”dance with the devil” that politicians had to play publicly and privately to serve and champion their (and their constituents’) interests and to get anything done/passed. I love that Schenkkan’s play allows us to viscerally experience up close the public dance, personal sacrifices, professional compromises and private moments (the latter where a little of the actual truth and beliefs are shared), to better understand the players involved, the scapegoats, the lesser known allies, the egos, and the pros and cons of getting power and becoming addicted to what it affords/promises/entices. I’ve lived in DC for 20 years. I perhaps should not be surprised. I have lived among many of the players. During various chapters of my life in the city, I have taught their children. I’ve served them food. I’ve performed for them. I’ve produced events with them. I’ve overheard them revealing their honest thoughts at local watering holes. They’ve told me outright at local watering holes what they really want/feel/how they have to do it/make it happen! But I was still surprised when reading what many people (during the Civil Rights Movement and especially LBJ and MLK) had to endure for the greater good- or their greater good.
Lurleen and George Wallace
Even hard working and kind hearted Muriel Humphrey realized what the power of the first lady could allow. I was also surprised to learn of so much of the Lurleen Wallace story. I knew she had become the first female governor of Alabama though didn’t realize that her doctor and George knew of signs of cancer years before they told her and began treatment that could have saved her life. I knew that George had a bit of a “come to Jesus” at the end of his life though didn’t realize (until after further research) that he awarded the Lurleen Wallace Award of Courage to Vivian Malone, one of the African American students he tried to bar from the University of Alabama in that horrific historic stand-off. He also apologized to the other student James Hood in 1995.
What did you learn about your character that helped to inform your performance?
There have been many books written about Lurleen Wallace from a very diverse group of writers from The Intimate Story of Lurleen Wallace: Her Crusade of Courage by Anita Smith to American Evita: Lurleen Wallace by Janice Law to Lady of Courage The Story of Lurleen Burns Wallace by Jack House to even a book for children Lurleen B. Wallace Alabama’s First Woman Governor by Alice Yeager. Although I learned many facts about her through very official and more nuanced historic/governmental sources, as an actor, I often embraced and found more useful some of the dishier and more personal accounts that talked about everything from her nickname “Mutt,” for following her father around on fishing trips, to her love of coffee and Benson and Hedges and Fire and Ice Revlon lipstick (the latter I have found and have been wearing for Lurleen) to the chapter where she wanted to get a divorce and often took the kids to her parents but was talked out of it by George’s brother and how she would later dismiss such a chapter like a political pro/total spin goddess.
I loved reading about the simple things that brought Lurleen pleasure and when and how she would stand up to George. Although they were in a stronger place (as a couple and financially) in ’63 and ’64, it’s useful to have the backstory to fuel and color and help with when the cracks are revealed. I loved reading about the lesser publicized details about how she (and all the jobs she took!) was instrumental in helping his rise. From creating crib sheets for his days on the bench to working many low level jobs (though some low level government jobs which would ultimately help her actually make some things happen for the mentally ill when she was governor). Often her paycheck was the only thing feeding their young family. It was more than being a helpful wife knocking out breakfast, babies, a smile and a wave!
Hubert and Muriel Humphrey
Of course it’s challenging (as I am a self-proclaimed bleeding heart liberal and very concerned with LBGT rights, women’s rights and minority rights!) to play this woman—even though generous with children, hard-working, compassionate towards mentally ill patients and a cancer sufferer, she also shared George’s beliefs about segregation, at least enough to be as involved as she was and to stay with him. Unlike George she was better loved and respected by Alabamians including African Americans. Do they know something about her REAL beliefs that I wasn’t able to find by examining her actions? Also, I feel I have learned the most about Lurleen through reading notes from her oldest daughter (who had major issues with her father and was extremely devoted to her mother- she was there during their rough chapters before they had any money and when George was running around on Lurleen and possibly hitting her) and dear friend Mary Jo Ventress. I learned about her physicality and speech through her speeches from ’66, videos of her with George during his rallies and an extensive amount of candid and official photographs. Again it’s those shots that reveal the cracks/foreshadowing of something that become most treasured for an actor, or at least for me.
It was a special gift to learn more about Muriel Humphrey. Not since playing Calamity Jane (in ahem the late 80s) have I been able to play someone from my home state of South Dakota. It’s broken my heart to realize how intolerant it’s become about certain rights for women and minorities though try to cherish what was (and in certain parts still is) beautiful and productive when I grew up and the SD that nurtured the likes of Hubert and Muriel! Hubert was born in Wallace, SD, 20 min from my hometown (Webster) and Muriel three hours away in Huron, SD. Although my mother is from Boston, most all my family is in Massachusetts and I’ve lived in D.C. for nearly 20 years, I grew up in Webster, SD— with much of her dialect/rhythms/essence – the earnestness, self-deprecation, sweetness, optimism, kind of corny/cheesiness that she beautifully possesses. I will do my best to honor her spirit and heart. There’s an almost childlike quality to her friendship and love with Hubert. Though she’s not as simple as she may come across.
I root for Muriel. I know what it feels like to arrive in a big city and have to try to figure out the game. And also the realization that sometimes you and others have to compromise to get what you want for the greater good in the end. I understand how sometimes people perceive kindness for weakness. I know what it’s like to want to take care of everyone and make the most out of life. I know what’ it’s like to be laughed at for your earnestness and optimism. I love that she found Hubert. He valued her. He listened to her. He incorporated many of her ideas. They had such a magical and wonderful love story and friendship and partnership. I loved her adoration, respect and love for his ideas. I also loved reading about some of their earlier adventures like hitting a cow on their honeymoon. Apparently they had to pay not only for the damages to Hubert’s father’s car that they borrowed but also to the FARMER even though it was the cow’s fault.
Both women did a lot of thankless work to help their men get what they wanted professionally – how they were treated varied though it’s interesting to examine all the women and other men behind the men.
Humphrey Pins courtesy of Richard Clodfelter
What comments or opinions did you hear from relatives and friends when you told them about this play and the woman you would play?
I was sorry that friends and family didn’t know as much about the wives but knew plenty about George Wallace and Hubert Humphrey! It’s been gratifying to fill in some of the blanks and champion the life of Muriel – and even many of LBJ’s hard working and very intelligent and gifted secretaries through this research and rehearsal process.
How does LBJ’s portrayal in this play compare to the one we saw in the film, Selma? Do you feel seeing the Civil Rights battle from different points of view helps or hinders how succeeding generations interpret history?
I think it’s very helpful to share multiple views.You cannot put an entire man’s life and legacy into three hours. With a man who accomplished so much and was so controversial (positively and negatively) I think it’s productive to have many gifted writers, filmmakers and other artists take a stab at uncovering some of the complex and fascinating layers.
We are in the midst of a presidential campaign. What characteristics attributed to LBJ might the current crop of candidates seek to emulate? What should they avoid?
It seems like some of today’s candidates feel the power of plain speaking and dumbing things down more than ever. (Or perhaps their fans fan the flames/are responsible for lowering the bar.) I do think there’s a time for extra clarity and “keeping it real,” but I also cherish language and a beautifully written, thoughtful, organized and graciously and passionately delivered speech. I’m saddened when it seems to be a detriment/negative to sound and BE educated and reflect complex ideas vs repeating the catchy and often cheeky fifth grade reading level sound bite. At least during his legendary private meetings, LBJ seemed to have the perfect speech for every person he was lobbying. I wonder if that made him less effective when making speeches for the masses. I guess with all of the surveillance and tracking devices, today’s politicians should be wary of what they say in some of the private meetings as well!
Why is it important that this play be staged in DC now?
I think this provocative and powerful play is important to be staged now to remind everyone of the stakes involved (LBJ says in the play, “This is the most important election of your lifetime.”) It will inspire everyone not only to get involved, get educated about the issues and to VOTE but also to take another look at some of the people who fought the very difficult and deadly battles to make a movement happen and change the laws to better the lives of so many Americans.
What has the opportunity to be in this play meant to you? Did you come away changed in any way?
I am incredibly grateful to play a part in examining and exploding this electrifying story with such talented artists and the rockstar team at Arena Stage. I love any play that inspires you to do more, read more and insist on more coverage about those relegated to the footnotes of history, make some noise, honor those whom fought the tough fights for vital freedoms and opportunities. It’s icing on the cake when the same experience can also inspire you to bust a gut from the crackling humor and wit and even bad behavior (thank you, Jack Willis), have your heart gutted and “mm hmm!” (thank you, Bowman Wright) loudly throughout the dazzling history. I also am incredibly honored and invigorated by the collaborative spirit, incredibly high bar, and gracious and generous energy that has infused every part of the process so far. I can’t wait to share the show and experience with everyone! I will forever cherish this journey!
First Ladies often wield power behind the throne. After Nancy Reagan’s death, stories abounded about the influence she had during her husband Ronald Reagan’s presidency. All the Way, Robert Schenkkan’s Tony Award-winning drama about Lyndon Johnson’s fight to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964, places another First Lady in the spotlight. Susan Rome, familiar to fans of The Wire as DA Ilene Nathan, will make her Arena Stage debut playing Lady Bird Johnson. The production, which will run from April 1 through May 18, will be directed by Kyle Donnelly.
We asked Susan, along with Shannon Dorsey and Adrienne Nelson, who will appear as Coretta Scott King and Lurleen Wallace, respectively, about playing historic figures during what was such a tumultuous time in America. Susan Rome’s answers are below. Answers by Shannon and Adrienne will appear soon.
You are likely not old enough to remember the Civil Rights battle in the 1960s. What research did you do that helped take you back to that historic time?
I was born during the Johnson presidency, a month before the election depicted in the play. I remember the day Johnson died…We had gone to DC for the day, to go to the Smithsonian. I was eight years old, sitting in the car with the radio on, when the news came on…
My parents were ardent Civil Rights and anti-war supporters, and I recall marching with them, being carried on my father’s shoulders. I don’t recall their opinion of LBJ, but do recall that they had a copy of the satirical play “MacBird!” on their bookshelf.
Susan, age five, at a Peace March in 1970
After being cast as Lady Bird last summer, I had some time in my schedule to go down to Austin to visit the LBJ Ranch – which has a wealth of information regarding the Civil Rights Act and LBJ’s relationship with Dr. King. I spent a day with archivists and researchers at the LBJ Museum and Library on the campus of UT. I love history and researching roles, and was fortunate to have great access to recordings, documents, photos and artifacts, as well as conversations with historians whose life’s work is all things LBJ. Also, I read Betty Boyd Caroli’s brand-new book, Lady Bird and Lyndon: The Hidden Story of a Marriage that Made a President. It is brilliantly researched and was an invaluable resource.
I watched videos, listened to countless recordings of Lady Bird’s voice (including the lovely audio description she did at the Johnson Memorial Grove near Boundary Channel), LBJ’s phone conversations, Lynda and Luci’s recollections of their mother, did a drive-by of the Johnson residence on 30th Place NW in DC…
I also read Katharine Graham’s Personal History and listened to audio recordings of her conversations with LBJ. Incredible woman.
What have you learned that surprised you the most?
Specifically regarding Lady Bird, much of what the public perception is centers around her “beautification” work. She didn’t like that term; thought it too cosmetic. She cared deeply about how our physical environment reflects our inner state of being, and wanted to transform the least picturesque areas of the country (inner cities and interstates) to reflect a pride of self and place.
What have you learned about your character that helped to inform your performance?
Lady Bird is often perceived and portrayed as being completely subservient to and bullied by her husband. I have learned that she was a pragmatist and almost completely without pretense. She was very self-aware and yet shy. She was a bright, well-educated business-woman, yet with a Southern gentility. She was a survivor; her mother died when she was five years old, and her father was quite absent. She understood Lyndon, and was able to support him in his aspirations and through his moments of crippling self-doubt. She knew exactly how to handle Lyndon, giving him her version of the “Johnson Treatment”! She was a First Lady much more in the mold of Eleanor Roosevelt (whom she admired greatly) than in the style of Mamie Eisenhower.
Susan in Lady Bird’s shower
Having stood in her bathroom (I was even invited to stand in her shower!), sat in her husband’s chair, and been surrounded by her clothes, I feel that I can access the superficial things that lend verisimilitude to my “Lady Bird.”
I want to get the details right. She was a great and good lady.
What comments or opinions did you hear from relatives and friends when you told them about this play and the woman you would play?
People have been delighted for me in terms of the professional opportunity (my first role at Arena Stage), and other than being referred to as the “Brown Wren of Texas” by one friend, I have heard not a disparaging word!
How does LBJ’s portrayal in this play compare to the one we saw in the film, Selma? Do you feel seeing the Civil Rights battle from different points of view helps or hinders how succeeding generations interpret history?
I did not see Selma, but I understand that his portrayal was not entirely accurate. One of the things I asked about when I was down in Austin was LBJ’s passion for Civil Rights. Was it out of political expediency (did he want to be “on the right side of history”) or sincere belief in racial equality? What I learned was that, as a young teacher in a Mexican school in Cotulla, Texas, he was profoundly impacted by the role that extreme poverty plays in denying opportunity to minorities in this country, and that he was viscerally in favor of Civil Rights.
Lady Bird’s closet
The role that J. Edgar Hoover had in all of the political machinations cannot be over-stated. He had so much dirt on everybody that LBJ had to manage him with kid gloves.
It is essential to view history with a clear sense of context. In this way we can understand various points of view, and can appreciate those who had the courage of their convictions.
We are in the midst of a presidential campaign. What characteristics attributed to LBJ might the current crop of candidates seek to emulate? What should they avoid?
LBJ was a consummate politician; he had a profound understanding and respect for the democratic process. He was a master manipulator.
I am not a psychologist, but if LBJ were in the political arena today, he may not have the career he had. His episodes of generosity and pragmatism contrasted with his bullying, offensive behavior and his crippling self-doubt might have landed him on a psychiatrist’s couch with a psychotropic cocktail on his bed-side table. He was a brilliant political operative with a folksy, authentic flare.
Susan in Austin, Texas
In terms of this current crop, on the Republican side, the art of discourse is officially dead. It seems that many of our current candidates view the American people as idiotic lemmings (no offense to lemmings). LBJ had a very early-mid 20th century view of women — retrogressive and objectifying, to say the least. The current group should avoid that. Definitely. Absolutely.
Why is it important that this play be staged in D.C. now?
This is precisely what is so exciting for me. To tell this story, now, in this place? Civil rights, equal protection under the law…It is staggering to believe, that on the heels of eight years under our first African-American Commander-in-Chief, an administration with barely a blemish, that we are, as a country, so mired in racial fear and hatred. It is shameful and causes me a lot of sadness. Here we are, 50 years after the events of this play, and it seems that we are even more polarized in some ways. That race is such a huge issue today is indicative of how far we still have to go in terms of mutual understanding and removal of fear of “otherness.” This story, in an election year, in Washington? Required viewing…
Witnessing the beginnings of the fight for Civil Rights, might audience goers be energized to continue that fight? Or disappointed that more has not been accomplished?
My son said to me two years ago, on MLK Day (he was eight), “Mom, don’t wait for change; BE the change.” We can never give up, we can never be silent. We must each do what we can. I hope that the audience leaves the theater energized and optimistic, and a little bit less comfortable about how things are.
What has the opportunity to be in this play meant to you? Will you come away changed in any way?
I am almost always deeply impacted by the work I do. Telling this story, now, with this brilliant creative team…I am honored to be a part of this play (which is more than that — it is a theatrical event, really!). I am sure that it will energize me to do all I can to get the VOTE out in November.
